Posts by La Capra

125

FRESH OFF THE PRESS.... 9/1/06 WT "When a Loved One Leaves Jeh."

by schne_belly in

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this just in for your reading displeasure......enjoy

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La Capra

My first observation is that this carefully crafted piece of propaganda is devoid of any indication that the reason all these characters in the article are devastated is that they are required to shun their family members or risk being shunned by everyone else, themselves.

I don't do Watchtower CD-rom, but didn't that article referred to say JWs weren't supposed to pray for the DFed? That it isn't quoted but only referenced prevents the nonJW reader from realizing the WTBTS's directive in this area.

And finally, it warms my heart that the WTBTS decided that there was enough of a need to publish this aricle, for the faithful. Too many families must be getting torn apart. I can't think of any families I knew growing up that don't have someone within two generations that has bailed....

I'm thinking that lots are leaving, and there are cracks in the faith of the diehards....

I can hope.

Shoshana

51

My Meeting with the Elders...

by rassillon in

jw
friends

it is most likely still very far away but i wanted to share with you guys one of the things i am thinking about doing when/if i do meet.

i plan on getting my chl (concealed carry permit)

then i am going to get a shoulder holster.

La Capra

This reminds me of all the local kids that are going aroun doing stupid petty criminal stuff, and getting videoed on their camera phones to send to their friends, recording and publishing what they did to the world.

Then having the video used against them in court....

Nothing like committing a crime and recording it for posterity, I say....(you can only use deadly force in certain circumstances, and if you have permitted someone to enter your home, that ain't it...).

Fortunately, we are all smarter than that around here, don't you know?

Shoshana

38

What if they're right?

by LovesDubs in

jw
friends

did that mentality keep you in fear and prevent you from leaving?

how many times were we told that the kingdom halls would be our ark and that we needed to keep going to the meetings so that we wouldnt miss the announcement that the great tribulation was beginning and the doors of the ark were closing...even though the bible says nobody knows the day or the hour?

did any of you ever pray for your relatives to die so they would have a ressurection and not be destroyed at armageddon?

La Capra

Once the penny dropped and I realised that "Its just not true", I kept repeating that and sat like a zombie for a while . But from that moment I have never doubted my rejection of the J W faith . Which is something that I could not say about the beliefs when I was in it

Well, I won't admit that I sat around like a zombie for awhile (I really didn't), but as soon as one card fell for me, the whole house fell-mainly because their entire premise is based on one true religion, and how they were convinced all other religions were false, on the basis of being able to show one thing was false (like when Jesus birthday is....) But, Blues Brother said it perfectly, "But from that moment I have never doubted ny rejection of the JW faith." Indeed my conviction that it is 100% wrong is stronger than any faith I ever had that a portion of it was correct. By the way, other people who have exited high control groups say the exact same thing, what if they are right. I posted a story about that here. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/94137/1596250/post.ashx#1596250 Shoshana

4

college questions.

by jaada in

hello everyone, i was wondering it has been along time since i have been to the jw hall and when i was going they would give me a guilt trip about going to college and tell me that i shouldn't waste time on that and instead learn how to go door to door.

i wasted 11 years not going to college because of them and i just went back 3 years ago.

i still have 4 more years to go.

La Capra

I too was given a lot of grief when I started college. But there was no way, I was going to "rely on Jehovah" to support me. I went straight to college from high school, and straight into a teaching career.

It was in between my first and second year of college that I realized why JWs don't want their members to go to college. We might figure out that the religion is a fraud. That was when I figured out it was a fraud, and I never went back.

I can't even fathom where I would be if I had followed their pressure and "learned how to go door-to-door." But, I recently had a glimpse of what could have been........

The boy I was dating my senior year of high school had gone off to college, at about the time he was getting interested in the JWs (because of me, I add regretfully). After his first quarter, he bailed out (I think he thought he couldn't handle it, but he claimed that he wanted to put the religion first-baaarrrfff).

Well, we broke up about the time I graduated, and I headed to college classes, while he worked at wages barely above minimum living standards in our community.

A few years later, after he had fully joined the religion, he married the mother of one of our classmates.

I just learned a few weeks ago that he and his (now senior citizen) wife had to go bankrupt last year. They still rent the same tiny house she was renting when we all were in high school, and there are still a few adolescents they have running around at home. The glimpse at what could have been my life, had I entrusted it to him, in that religion, was sobering (but I also feel vindicated that I did the right thing 20 years ago).

But on the upside, he apparently "reached out" and is an elder, as he is now the local "agent" for the congregation. Should anyone ever wish to sue my old congregation, he's the one designated to receive service...

I never considered it a mistake to go to school, or even to leave the religion. But if I hadn't, I probably would have ended up married to him and be bankrupt, instead of being almost wealthy, by California standards, with many fulfilling facets of my life.

Shoshana

60

What did the Watchtower Soceity REALLY say about 1975?

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

well, read for yourself!.

click here to download the oct 8th, 1968 awake!

magazine that talks about the year 1975.

La Capra

That scan is so good, I can almost smell the unique smell that paper and two color ink had, back in the late 60s and 70s. What a blast from the past. WTBTS used those same graphics, until the late 70s, I think, when they changed the logo. But when they went to the offset four color presses, in the 80s, the paper feel and the smell was never the same.

I'm always amazed at how scans of artifacts from my past life scratch different parts of my memories....

Shoshana

24

Supporting Vegetarian/Vegan Teens

by Scully in

my youngest is toying with the idea of adopting the vegan lifestyle.

she came to me at 11pm last evening with a strict list of what she wanted me to purchase for her as soon as the store opened this morning.

her enthusiasm could easily have been mistaken for "preaching".... and i'm afraid it didn't foster a very receptive spirit in me.. my main concern is her having adequate nutrition.

La Capra

Scully,

I went mostly vegetarian for the bulk of my high school years. No missed, late, or lighter periods (I would have considered that as relevant to my nutrition, I was geeky about that). But, at the end of my junior year, I went off it, started eating a little animal protein like beef, chicken and turkey nearly every day. At seventeen and a half, I grew an inch and a half in like 6 months. Incredibly unusual for a girl, particularly since I had put on no height since I was in eighth grade.

I am sure it was related to returning to the meat. (Since the girls in my family tended to reach full height at about 13 or 14.)

I also no longer needed an hour nap after school every day.

That's my anecdotal evidence, for what it's worth...

Shoshana

114

Announcement: Another favorable court ruling regarding Napa County lawsuit

by AndersonsInfo in

i'm thrilled to tell you about the latest court decision made in california a few days ago which kimberlee norris said would be announced today, monday, on jwd.. on july 3rd, i started a thread where the last two rulings in the napa county, california lawsuit, charissa w. v. watchtower, new york, et al., were posted.

both decisions were favorable to the plaintiff.

see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/116108/1.ashx.

La Capra

Thomas,

Among other things, the WBTS would like to hide between the confidentiality that is recognized between clergy and penitents.

The rationale behind this confidentiality is so as not to discourage an individual from being able to "come clean to God" about sin.

However, California Evidence Code (which governs what may be introduced to the jury at trial) says that in this situation (when an individual has confessed to a priest), in order for the priest to claim the privilege of confidentiality, certain guidlelines to the confession must be met.

WBTS claims they met the guidelines with the JC. Plaintiffs say no way. WBTS says that their judicial committee is the same as once clergy person because all the elders on a JC are "clergy." (I think this is a strong argument, by the way. Similar arguments have been used to preserve attorney-client, when there was more than one lawyer present for discussions with the client). Plaintiffs say if there is more than one elder there, it defeats the confidentiality privilege, because there is no expectation that a confidence was maintainable with a third person in the room.

The other, weaker argument that WBTS makes is that all the paper work that they completed, and the records that they kept are a result of these confidential communications, and as such, those too should be confidential. On the other hand, the plaintiffs have put forth that by reason of these publications, and that they were sent to HQ, the JC has shown its intent NOT to keep the matter confidential. The reason I think the court doesn't buy the defense's argument on this, is because the JC itself publicized the JC results. At a minimum, they may have announced that penitent (the child molester) was DFed, or more full breach of confidentiality occurred by sending the complete reports with additional facts learned from the JC to the society and other congregations in which the penitent may attend.

What the court recognizes is that when the clergy reveals the confidence (in any circumstance, beyond the sanctity of the confessional), the clergy cannot claim the privilege. So, WBTS can't then claim the privilege and have all these records of what they knew about the molester excluded from evidence at trial.

The plaintiff wants this evidence in to show that WBTS KNEW about the molester, and with that knowledge comes responsibility. But traditionally this confidnetiality privilege was to protect the penitent, and not the church. Here, the church wants to keep the paperwork private to protect itself, not the penitent. And yet, it was church's publication of the information to other parties that "broke" the confidentiality protections. It's being used against the church, and not against the penitent, who does not stand to be prejudiced by the discovery of these documents. His culpability is not really at dispute here anyway.

Shoshana

15

Could he be DF??

by Lilycurly in

jw
friends

lets say a father has an adult child that wrote a da letter.

they are not living under the same roof anymore, so, working with the wt's teachings the father don't speak to the daed person.

but he still continues to see the child regularly, going to the movies, eating at restaurants and sitting besides each other at family barbecues and gatterings.

La Capra

As far as I'm concerned (and as it would seem, my mother, the JW feels this way too), any sort of activity that a family would normally do together (eating, family visits, going to restaurants, movies, helping each other with projects, shopping for hats...) is the NORMAL FUNCTION OF A FAMILY IN SOCIETY. As such, any of these activities IS family business, and none of anyone else's....

My thoughts, after the fourth, during which I visited my mother, my brother (JW) and his daughters were there. We ate together, and then my brother and I took the kids to the fireworks.....Hmmm. Family business, indeed.

Shoshana

38

Insensitive talk assignments

by Steve Lowry in

jw
friends

i once was assigned a talk on masturbation when i was about fifteen or so.

the theme of the talk was to discourage masturbating (actually to forbid the practice), as it was considered by the society a no no.

looking back on it, it offends me to this day that they would give a kid such a sensitive and embarrassing talk assignment like that.

La Capra

When I was a senior in high school, we had a "special needs" demonstration in the service meeting. A single mom (whose sister was married to an elder, so she was an ''eldress by proxy") and her daughter (a junior in high school) gave it. The setting was a "mother-daughter chat." Daughter goes to mom to talk about how all the kids are going to prom, and how she knows she's not going to be going. There wasn't even any conflict about the daughter wanting to go and the mother/society saying no. All the right references to scriptures and articles were made.

What was so hypocrtical was that just a few months before, I had danced with the daughter, and daughter's boyfriend (and my onw boyfriend too) at a high school dance in the gym after a football game...

I couldn't believe my eyes and ears. Later, I muttered to her about what a hypocrite she was, but I never did sell her out. I didn't even tell my mom that I had seen her at a dance (my mom knew I was at the dance, but her mom didn't know we were there).

Shoshana

10

wts is a false prophet

by headmath in

*** awake!

quote.

if you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.

La Capra

I just returned from a brief visit with my folks, and one of my brothers. At the fireworks, he and I chatted about the "friends" from our kid days. They are all really old, or dead. the very ones who get on that platform and tell us we didn't need to be in school, we didn't need good jobs, and we didn't need to plan for our retirements.

My brother ran into one his childhood chums at the local festivities earlier in the day. The friend told my brother that he and his wife had moved into his parents old house (mom has died, dad is now elderly). He asked how the dad was, and the wife said, "Oh he won't talk to us, we're evil...." Then his friend said yeah he just moved into [former p.o., who recently died from Alzheimer's]'s mobile home.

And in other news on the "'millions now living will never die' my ass" front, another witness couple who married in the late 70s and waited until the mid 80s to have kids (because armageddon, you know), just buried their 22 year old daughter, who killed herself last month. (She was the granddaughter of the above mentioned former p.o.).

In 1969, I was one year old. The former p.o. and his wife were in their 40s raising three teenagers-none of whom went to college.... They not only grew old, they died....

Shoshana